Bleeding Green Team

  • Morton Bartholomew
    Toledo, Ohio
    MSU '68

    Steve Moorman
    Oakland, CA
    MSU '73

    Jason Aikens
    Canton, Ohio
    MSU '94

    Mike Scott
    White Lake, Mich.
    MSU '96

    Andi Osters
    Lansing, Mich.
    MSU '04

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May 13, 2009

Comments

Stan

Honestly, I support it. If these kids decide they want to try to earn their living right after high school, then who are we to stand in their way?

With that being said, the facts surely show that overall, kids have a better chance of a good job getting their degrees (since so few succeed profesionally), but again, who are we to tell them they can't earn money right after high school?

LeeBee

It is their choice alone (and their parents / guardians). No one has the right to dictate what direction they must go. The NBA can, of course, try to set up entrance barriers. If they do, they would be subject to anti-trust actions.

psyc

I support him! If only for the fact that the "One and Done" rule is a joke! It's an insult to both college basketball and academics!

These kids want to make the money, let them!! The NBA's exploitation of the NCAA is practically criminal! Only Syracuse has actually won with a one year star! Where have they been since Carmello left?

If a free education is viewed as restrictive to these kids then keep them out of college! I would like to see high schoolers be able to do what they want!! However if they do choose college, they have to stay at least 3 years! This maintains the integrity of student athletics while allowing individuals to make their own choices!

UpNorthSpartan

Support the High Schoolers? Yes.
support the greedy sports agents? NO

VegasMike

I agree that a high school senior shouldn't be forced to go to college. It simply makes a mockery of college. It is interesting that the other topic in Joe's column is about USC paying O.J. Mayo to attend its school. Had he gone straight to the pros, it would have been avoided. I read that for a player to be active for his 1st year of college ball, he has to get two passing grades, D's, but could fail the rest in the fall term. He wouldn't even have to attend classes the next semester during the actual hoops season, because he knows he's already going pro. It is simply a joke to call that type of player a student athlete.

What's interesting is that one of the top juniors, Jeremy Tyler out of San Diego, is not only skipping his freshman year to play overseas, but his senior year of high school as well. As he's said, he wants to be a NBA player, and at his size, 7' 250lbs, he can best do that playing in Europe. As he said, it's boring to get triple teamed by 6'2" guys.

I feel bad for guys like Marcus Taylor, but at the same time, that's life. We are usually judged be the decesions we make. In his case, he was surrounded by people that had their best interests in mind, not his. Again, we are often judged by the company we keep.

I think we'll see more guys go overseas to play for a year or 2, especially the big men. The NBA and NCAA will then have to rethink the age requirement.

karatechop6

psyc - I agree with most of what you said. However, I think a student-athlete should only have to commit for two years. Either way, it would make it a lot easier on the college coaches if the "one and done" players were eliminated. And if these guys want to try their luck in the NBA straight from high school, I wish them good luck.

Thanks everyone for not posting a ridiculous comment about paying NCAA athletes. I thought someone would do it for sure.

Rexrode (evil twin)

oops. sorry karatechop. but i firmly believe NCAA athletes should at least get a share of the profits from their efforts. even if its placed into a trust until after they graduate. that would protect the kids who give just as much as the superstars and have bleak futures in the pros. in this economy a college degree doesnt lock up a good job. as i type this i am sitting at my job where i make $40,000 a year (not much i know) but i have no degree from a major university and i have friends with Degrees who are bagging groceries and waiting tables right now. the NCAA makes millions off these kids and the money that they could actually get and invest or use to keep themselves afloat in this economy is more valuable than a 4 year education. sorry but thats the reality.

chet

What everyone is failing to mention in the case of Brandon Jennings is that he didn't have the SAT scores to qualify at a D-I program. I'm sick of people saying he chose to go to Europe rather than college. He had no choice!

theRichman

I have no problem with young people going overseas to play hoop instead of abusing the one and done joke of a rule . What they really need to do while they are over there is save every sent they make in case it doesn't pan out so well and then they can pay for their own college tuition later on. A degree doesn't guarantee a job in the world but it would sure increase their odds of a better life for them and their family.

Rexrode (evil twin)

yea i mean dont get me wrong, a degree is invaluable to getting a better job. i have other friends with degrees who are making lots of money (just not in michigan). the one and done rule is a joke, and was only invented so that the next time a Lebron James type player comes along he has to spend at least one year, and more to the point one tournament making CBS and the NCAA that much richer. what many of them may be underestimating is that the talent in Europe is not that bad. to us the NBA is the end all be all but many players overseas chose to stay there to be a household name in their own country. where here they would just be another big with a name we cant pronounce.

SpartanHawk

This is a sad joke that is just as bad as the ones played out in politics by the powers that be.
The NCAA is a money maker. ESPN is a money maker. If a person has enough talent to play professional basketball, then they should be money makers. College is not for everyone.
A college "student-athlete" playing NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball, only needs to pass 6 credits to be elgible to play his freshmen year. This is not what I would deem "going to college." This is so the NCAA can make money, plain and simple. This is why entities like ESPN support the rule. They make money.
Young men are merely serving the role of a prostitute and the NCAA is their pimp, plain and simple. This rule should be thrown out. It is a total joke!
Think about it...6 credits and all one has to do is pass! And "they" call this going to college...lmfao!

West Coast Steve

Money and egos, money and egos. Let them go. I do not watch pro sports because the level of ranting egos and greed, the grandstanding, the corrupt practices, the lack of teamwork in a team sport...booooooring.

I do like the idea of a three-year rule: If you start college with a free-ride scholarship (money-wise) then you should not be draftable for three years. Either you want to learn to conjugate basic verbs in your native language or you don't. It's your (often dumb) choice even at 17, but the genie is out of the bottle for a lot of these jocks in a culture where who you are is commonly a distant second to what you appear.

Assuming I went to a crappy, violent high school with a a joke diploma, maybe six credits only in my first fall semester is a good test of any academic foundation and very basic life-management skills. But, it should ramp up rapidly from there. Maybe the six-credit student should be automatically redshirted so "student-athlete" is made more meaningful.

Darrell Hensley

Bleeding Green needs a new Pic. Green and White yelling boy has run his course

Michael Motta

As a related but side issue, I'm curious what people think of traditional "four-year institutions" offering Associates' degrees. I don't know of this occurring, at least not at any of the FBS-sized universities.

I thought of this idea a few years ago in terms of student-athletes, but with the price of tuition nowadays, it could just as easily benefit other students too. You get a degree under your belt after two years, and then of course nobody is going to make you quit. You can always continue school immediately, or you can opt to go back later. Meanwhile, you have SOMETHING tangible to show.

Now my basic educational ideas are quite different from this. I'm on the Left politically, but a bit old school conservative regarding a rigorous, but leisurely, liberal arts education rather than today's four years of what essentiallly amounts to job training rather than education. So I figured that if I liked an idea that wasn't even really part of what some might refer to as an ivory tower ideology, then maybe it's the type of thing that could gain broad-based support from various sides.

I'm GUESSING that the reason why Associates' degree programs aren't usually offered is that they are thought to somehow taint a school's reputation. For instance, one could hold a "Big Ten degree" while having only passed half as many credits as it takes to earn a Bachelor's. Some might think this devalues their own four-year degrees or devalues the reputation of their respective alma maters. Otherwise, I can't see many good arguments against it. I'm not sure that earning an Associate's degree would discourage the student from continuing, if that's another argument.

Thoughts?

charlevoixspartan

The biggest point I have is that there is no level of mental or physical maturity with these kids. College may not be for everyone, but you need a level of intelligence to handle the mental and fiscal rigors of life, particularly if you are making the kind of money people are these days. Kobe, Lebron and KG come around once every generation, the exception, not the rule. If you want to clean up the thuggery in pro sports, then the pro baseball model is the way to go. If you decide to go to college, then you must stay there three years before going pro. If not, give it a shot and risk losing it all, ala Marcus Taylor. I'm all for the American Dream, just tired of all these ignorant youth collecting paychecks and deciding that making it rain at strip clubs is the way to go. Oh by the way, I am a bitter man still paying off his college degree, so as far as paying college athletes, to heck with it. Let's not forget these kids are receiving a FREE education........that is more than enough payment.

Idaho Spartan

NBA teams should boycott drafting him and send the message to younger players that going to the year of college is a better idea!

Jimmy in Indy

It's funny that Andre Hutson led Brandon Jennings' team in scoring and has never played a minute in the NBA, but this kid is a back up and will go in the first round. That's what's wrong with the Association

Rich C.

Sorry, but many elite basketball (and football) players simply do not belong on a college campus. Credit goes to those athletes that take advantage of the immense opportunity a scholarship gives. However, let's face it: most of these guys are not serious students.

I have absolutely no objection to players going abroad at any point in order to train in their chosen profession. This frees a scholarship for someone that might use it.

I also believe that schools ought to offer these guys some kind of major that would prepare them for life after sports. If they don’t want to pursue a major in math, English or science, then allow them to major in basketball, for example. But the curriculum would include instruction on personal finance, how to choose an agent, media relations, personal communication, how to identify people that are trying to take advantage of you, history of their sport, coaching theory, teaching, broadcasting. I'm sure there are other areas that would be of value. The point would be to teach skills that would relate to their chosen profession of professional athlete but also give them life skills they could put in practice once their athletic career ends; even if their athletic career ends in college. I think if schools went this way then some of the guys without a realistic chance of playing in the NBA might see the value of this education and may choose to stay in school longer.

Additionally, if the NCAA were truly concerned with academics then they would require that any athlete admitted to any individual school would meet the minimum requirements that normal students must meet to be admitted to that school. Individual schools could then determine if they want to lower overall admissions standards in order to admit athletes with questionable scholastic credentials.

One thing is for certain: the current system is hypocritical and it sets up the athletes to fail and it almost guaranties there will be cheating for recruits. Speaking of recruiting, I would ban all off campus recruiting by coaches other than attending high school games. In addition, I would require that AAU coaches be certified by the NCAA. In order to be certified by the NCAA, AAU coaches would be required to follow a strict code of conduct that would eliminate the dirty tricks that occur in the AAU. In order to make this have teeth, I would declare ineligible for college participation any player that plays for AAU teams coached by someone who is not certified.

primedsc

I agree on the off-topic comment that Green and White Yelling Boy has got to go. Something really bothers me about that picture/boy. It's the same creepy feeling I get when I see clowns.

Chris

They could solve this and generate tons more for small city economies by giving them 2 choices:

1.-At least 2 years of college, or
2.-At least 2 years in the Developmental League.

No exceptions.

rexrode (evil twin)

wow seriously. this blog needs an update

BeigeFan

I think that is a yelling GIRL!!

MSUinSC

I like the chant for freedom of choice and American ideals, but there are more dynamics than basketball skills involved with players vaulting from high school to the NBA. Yes, there are many players physically ready to play basketball and that is what fans pay for. However, the ability for an 18/19 year old to connect/wok with men in their mid 20's to mid 30's is difficult. Also, the marathon of the NBA season and traveling from city to city can be daunting. The glamour of the NBA lights and the surreal culture that surrounds it (if you are selected at 18/19 to enter the NBA then you were selected for superstardom) can flip you upside down - look at many young actors after years under the public spotlight. They lose their way. To say that an 18/19 year should be allowed to enter the NBA is like feeding them to the wolves and a short-sighted perspective. Yes, there are exceptions. Lebron James is a prime example of someone with a strong belief system and was not swayed by the surreal culture of the NBA. Kevin Garnett is another example. However, being a graduate of MSU and having experienced some of the hurdles of the real world, I do not feel we would prepare these young minds for the NBA by letting them enter the draft directly after high school. And we reap what we sow as fans. If all we care about are player statistics and W's then I say let them play. If we, as a fan base, care about statistics, as well as, grooming the role models for our children’s future then I believe these talented teenagers should spend more time in college.

Unfortunately, we allowed commercialism and capitalism to govern the NBA arena. After Magic, Larry and Jordan, the NBA lost a portion of its fan base because it didn't have an electric superstar that was larger than life. Instead of waiting for the college ranks to groom the mental and technical skills of the future NBA players, the NBA deferred to instant promotion of individuals to their ranks on the basis of raw talent. This subsidized the lack of talent currently in the system and allowed the industry to glamorize teenagers that jumped from high school to the NBA ranks. It also allowed the NBA to immediately search for that electric superstar to fill the void left by Magic, Bird, and Jordan. If you do not believe me then look at correlation between when players began entering the draft from high school and when the three superstars of basketball departed. You could argue that Kobe filled that void but his marital affair disgraced his image and vicariously, the NBA's. However, Lebron seems to be the flagship that will carry them into the future and the NBA product is once again palpable. However, what was the cost? Many young, talented players that lost their way? A league filled with youngsters that the fan base has difficulty connecting with because they cannot technically go out for a drink after a big game? Also, the college fan base that enjoys watching their alums succeed in the NBA ranks is lost because the kids bypass the college level and jump directly to the NBA. And what about the one and done's? Do you feel like Randolph was as much of a Spartan as Peterson? Probably not - so whose stats do you watch on TV and pay attention to more? These are the reasons why Mr. Vaccaro does not have the players’ best interests at heart. He believes in the capitalist machine, but when it comes to America grooming its future NBA stars I think Mr. Vacarro has it all wrong. You cannot apply capitalist fundamentals to an individual's development - it is far too short sighted and it vicariously impacts the NBA in negative manner.

I believe a positive approach would be to develop the basketball players similarly to how MLB and NHL players are developed. Their rights are traded (hockey) or farm systems developed (both) to groom them for the future lime light. This allows them to mature physically into their position as well as mentally prepare them for the big show.

But the NBA needs to take the reigns and America needs to wake up. I love capitalism when applied correctly. However, we, as educated Americans, need to understand there is a time and place for everything. Yes, capitalism should drive the teenagers to dream big but not at the price of disgracing themselves nor ill-preparing them for the future. Allowing Mr. Vacarro to take the reigns shows a defeatist mentality from the NBA and sacrifices the potential of our talented youth. We all know the teenage stars have more to contend with then their opponent on the court as I have alluded to above. All I have to say is, “We reap what we sow.” Hopefully, those closest to the teenagers will persuade them to make the right decisions and the allure of millions will not be the only driving force in their decisions.

buy soma online

this is a great idea, I really need something like him in our team!

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