Seven Sweet Sixteens, 11 years
Quite a feat. Is there a better backcourt in the NCAA Tournament right now than Kalin Lucas/Drew Neitzel? They're both playing well individually, but they're also setting each other up to succeed. Not the case in, say, January.
Here's a question for you MSU fans to ponder: If you had the choice, would you rather take the existing scenario, or a Big Ten regular season title and a first-weekend exit from the NCAA Tournament?
In my opinion, it should be an easy choice. National prominence trumps Big Ten prominence, and no one in the nation remembers who won the Big Ten this year. I have no idea who won the other major leagues' regular season titles.
That's not to say those championships aren't important. That's not to say MSU should quit trying to win the Big Ten, and it's not to say fans shouldn't be disappointed with a seven-year drought.
What I am saying is, a Sweet Sixteen has more value in a lot of ways. The Spartans are one of 16 teams left playing relevant basketball. And there's nothing in sports like the NCAA Tournament.
SWEET16!!!!!!!
Great games by Lucas, Neitzel, Suton! Solid 'team' win!
7 Sweet Sixteens in 11 years speaks volumes for the program, Joe. And it's easier to remember than how many league championships a team wins. For recruiting I would think a good run in the tourney is better than a B10 championship. Wider audience plus future players would rather do well on the big stage than in the league.
For Drew and Drew, however, a league championship would have probably meant more for memories sake. They could hang their hat on a championship...trophy in the case and all.
Posted by: Ben Green | March 23, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Okay, Joe, I hate your question. We should not have to choose between the Big Tenseason and tourney championships and the NCAA championships. We should want and expect all three IF we want to be an elite program. And I also remember who won both the season and tourney Big Ten championships and I hate them. And, by the way, they are still in it too. Big Ten defense is awesome as Kansas State and Pitt found out. And watch out for the Purdue babies in the next few years. The Big Ten is a tough league and winning the regular season AND tourney MEANS something in preparation for the big dance.
One final comment. Pitt got to the line and made a lot more free throws than we did. Just as Wisconsin did. And Hightower and Big Ten refs weren't there. It's because other teams drive into the paint, lower a shoulder and refs call those fouls against the defense. Hell, they can't see if a guy's feet are set in the middle of that log jam. The fouls will almost always go to against the defense. Aside from Lucas, we don't drive into the paint enough.
Posted by: Pops | March 23, 2008 at 08:39 AM
Agree with Buddy J about Suton. Yesterday, Rosenberg's piece noted how Walton is the perfect Izzo player, while Suton is the whipping boy.
Well, Suton played extremely well on both ends of the floor last night--guarding Sam Young as well as he possibly could. I love Walton, but he was a big offensive liability last night. And he picked up some bad fouls on defense. At some point Izzo, needs to look at production, not just toughness.
As for Joe's question, I'd probably still lean toward the Big Ten title at this point, just because of the drought we've experienced there. But a win vs. Memphis (or Miss St) would swing things toward the NCAA run.
Go Green!
Posted by: kj (spartans weblog) | March 23, 2008 at 09:03 AM
Joe, any thoughts on the officiating? They seems to really let them play well into the area of bad no-calls. How do you think MSU would have faired in prior games with similar officiating, or if the game had been called similar to other MSU games?
Posted by: Mike | March 23, 2008 at 09:24 AM
Great game. Gutsy. Neitzel came to play...as usual..and as usual the team goes as Neitzel goes. Lucas was a force, too, and for a freshman this bodes well for the future. If Morgan can get his head and game squared away maybe we can make a deep run. Suton is still hot and cold; with Pitt he was hot. Naymick as steadily improved, but as I've said before he's destined for the boardroom. His playing days are soon to be over. Take your PhD and make your millions on Wall street, kid!
MSU still a matter of which team will show up. Been this way all season, ref's notwithstanding.
IZZO is "da man." No doubt about that. And no doubt his talent as a superior coach that has brought MSU to prominence in b-ball. Jud laid a great foundation, and Izzo built it from there. There are, however, some loose hinges and shingles that need a'fixin'. Morgan: Head case? Suton: Mr. Inconsistent? Gray: Mr. M.I.A/A.W.O.L. And let's put some meat on that 7 footer, will ya. Feed that boy!!!!
Where are Allen and Summers, anyway?
Work yet....still... to do.
Nice advance to another Sweet 16. Hope we can improve over the next few days.
Posted by: spartan fan | March 23, 2008 at 09:52 AM
Give Tom credit for his coaching preparation in the big dance. MSU is a hard out for any opposing team because of Izzos scouting/flim analysis machine. Lucas is going to be the best true point guard to ever play for the Spartans. I'm glad to see Drew Neitzel make it back to the sweet 16, he's had a tough senior year. Suton had a great game. I have to admit that I was skeptical after the big 10 lose to Wisky. Hard to bet against Tom in the second round of the tournament (12-2). Still not getting any credit from the talking heads on the networks, thats fine with me, well keep playing the underdog role. This team plays it's best ball as the underdogs. Anyway. I like the idea of winning another Big Ten title, but man this is SWEET... Victory for MSU... Go State !!! D-Up on the Tigers next weekend...
Posted by: U.P. SPARTAN | March 23, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Props to Joe -- "heard" your question on ESPNews last night -- such a macho low voice hehe. I love that you speak with such authority (I wondered if you were thinking, "I'm gonna show this guy from the Denver Post and that guy from the Wash. Post that I know my stuff." lol, watch out for stalkers, you're getting some "national prominence" yourself, hehe.
Props to Spartanforever for his best --shortest, most concise--post EVER:
"ONE GAME AT A TIME...
Posted by: spartanforever | March 23, 2008 at 01:51 AM"
And Dickie Miller, youth is wasted on the young, right. I don't neccesarily think calling out the youngun's because of their raw emotions is worth it. It's not worth it for you, me, or them. I'm in my late 30's now, so I sit somewhere in the middle. But com'n, weren't you once passionate? What has the voice of expereince taught you?
Go Green!
Posted by: steve sensei | March 23, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Why NOT get giddy? Why NOT go beserk? This was a wonderful win for the Spartans. Let's savor it for 24 hours at least and celebrate the incredible work that went into getting to the Dance and winning two (so far) there. Defense and bench did the job last night...did anyone see the 'legs' that just weren't there for Pitt? On to Houston! Go Sparties!
Posted by: Ruth In Tucson | March 23, 2008 at 10:02 AM
I remember sitting up in the stands at Jenison Field House in 1954. I was 12 years old and it was my first Spartan Basketball game. There was a man up almost to the rafters, sitting and going over paper work while he watched the game. I asked my brother-in-law who the man was, he told me it was Dr. Hannah. Every time the team would make a good play he would stop and with a smile on his face, clap his hands. I will always remember that game and on days like this, I know that Dr. Hannah would be very proud.. I know I am.
Posted by: 65 Tampa Bay | March 23, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Joe,
Of course coming off the victory we all think this is a great win for the Spartans, however, if the lose this week, is it really that great? I would take a a big ten title and tournament win over a first day exit in the sweet 16, and if you think that going to the sweet 16 or final 4 is more meaningful than hanging a big ten banner you are drinking too much green joy juice.
As for Izzo's great coaching job, the Spartans lost a 10 point lead again, where have we seen that before? The individual effort of Lucas bailed the Spartans out numerous times, that is not coaching. And lastly, Pitt was totally fatigued. All the jump shots were short in the last 10 minutes of the game. So the coaches deserve credit, but we didn't see much new in this game to make us believe they were the ones who deserve the credit for this victory.
We'll see what people think next week.....
And for all the Wisconsin haters, they looked pretty good and I think they have a very good shot at the final 4. All the Bo bashers will be hating life if that happens, especially if we lose next week.
Posted by: Scott Skiles | March 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Don't be too hard on Bobby. Pitt at this point in the season might be one of the top 5-6 teams in the country. We all know how schizo our team can be. Those two teams on the court last night were as good or better than any team left with the exception of Kansas and NC. That's how good we were last night.
Frankly, I'll be a bit surprised if they DON'T beat Memphis or MSU Friday.
Not to look too far ahead, but can you see a re-match of Kalin with DJ Augustin? Woo-woo. NOTHING better.
Posted by: hoplite69 | March 23, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Fizzers from the Fizzone, (you know who you are)
Still can't stand the fact that MSU is in the Sweet Sixteen, again, and you have to listen to the comments praising Tom Izzo, which are rampant.
A sad day in Fizzoland.
A GREAT DAY for Spartans!!!
Congratulations to Tom, staff, and all the team.
Posted by: Chuck from St.Johns | March 23, 2008 at 10:34 AM
its sweeetttt again in E.L., babbbbyyyyyyy.... GO STATE
Posted by: jay | March 23, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Anybody with a brain would rather see the national success than the BT tourney. Like it was said earlier, nobody knows who won which conference but every sports fan in America will know who the SWEET 16 is. Tired of hearing all of the people that never wore a jock saying negative things about MSU. Love them or leave them. You can always root for that other school. Oh wait, what would you have to complain about?
Bracketville stay as long as you can.
Go Spartans!!!!
Posted by: Rudedog | March 23, 2008 at 10:40 AM
Great victory. Do not get to excited however. Pitt is way overated for the following reasons. Injuries ,only 6 players played and they wore out in the second half.Size Pitts starters 6'7 freshman center, 6'6 forward,2 6'1 guards 5'10 guard. Lack of size and depth made them vulnerable to anyone. Claim to fame was beating Duke who was defeated in NCAA by a 7th seed. Next game will tell true Spartans. Ncaa is luck of the draw.
Posted by: Roger Spartan | March 23, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Joe,
Did you see the AP's reference to "the brutish defense that Tom Izzo's teams are known for"? It's still up on the CBS Sportsline recap & at ESPN.com. FoxSports has a version with this slam edited out.
Posted by: lkreggie | March 23, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Now that's what I'm talking about, baby; timely 3 point shooting, good low post play with a real inside-outside game and penetration into the paint to open things up. That plus freshman maturity and the usual tough defense makes us a tough match-up for anyone.
Posted by: jomiri469 | March 23, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Roger, you been a fan long? Luck is always a part of the run. Most people don't think Pitt was overated they have played and won in spite of any situations as all teams must. We beat a good team, try and enjoy the win without being a downer. There were some things that the Spartans could have used for excuses to fail but they played thru them. Dont try and bring the faithful down. It's a solid win.
Go Spartans.
Posted by: Rudedog | March 23, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Fantastic game showing lots of the heart this team seemed to lack at times during the regular season. Would someone please explain to me though why ESPN showed highlights of the Stanford game, Wisconsin game, Notre Dame game, NBA, Nascar, golf and for gods sake figure skating without showing a single highlight from States "unexpected" win over a very good Pittsburgh team?? Are my longtime suspicions of an anti MSU conspiracy based on something other than a love for the Spartans? No matter what, this was a great win and I hope Neitzel et.al. can continue this newfound determination.
Posted by: John | March 23, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Joe,
Did you see the AP's reference to "the brutish defense that Tom Izzo's teams are known for"? It's still up on the CBS Sportsline recap & at ESPN.com. FoxSports has a version with this slam edited out.
Posted by: lkreggie | March 23, 2008 at 10:58 AM
I would just as soon not draw attention to ourselves at this point until we get a win next Friday. We have been known for sneaking up on unsuspecting victims in the tourney. So low profile in the media is a good thing for us right now.
That was a great win, and if we get Morgan out of foul trouble you could have tacked on another 10 pts. We can destroy anybody when we play like we did (and against IU). I would be very scared if I was Memphis or Texas right now.
Posted by: gm | March 23, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Good Win. Hope Izzo let's them rest a little. You can over-practice and he has a rep for overdoing it. They have to be rested for the next game.
Posted by: Shelly Waxman | March 23, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Joe,
Did you see the AP's reference to "the brutish defense that Tom Izzo's teams are known for"? It's still up on the CBS Sportsline recap & at ESPN.com. FoxSports has a version with this slam edited out.
Posted by: lkreggie | March 23, 2008 at 11:09 AM
gotta throw this out there. It's like eavesdropping at the Pitt's Union Bar. It's enjoyable to read this in retrospect, knowing we won a great game.
http://www.pittblather.com/2008/03/22/ncaa-08-second-round-michigan-state-pitt-liveblog/#comments
great stuff like:
Holy ****, Ramon chasing that kid around isn’t going to get us anywhere….we need fields or blair to help on that…or he’s going to keep burying that same shot over and over again…"
and
"Somebody needs to kick that MSU mascot in the ***z…hard. WTF was that crap after Fields made the steal/layup?"
gives a little perspective to how we react, too.
Posted by: steve sensei | March 23, 2008 at 11:15 AM
This was a great win. Something that's been somewhat over-looked is that MSU won both their games decisevely. Did not take a buzzer-beater to take out Temple or Pitt. Pitt fans have likely had enough of MSU after football (2yrs in a row!) and now this. Now on to play the non-PA teams.
The interesting thing is that this team STILL is not clicking on all cylinders, either. Morgan could be MSU's most dynamic player, and yet he was a non-factor. If can ever learn how not to travel & stay out of foul trouble, he'll be awesome! Ibok hurt the team; he needs to have at least a little offensive posture. I'm not asking him to be a Zack Randolph, but when you're 6'11 you should be able to make an uncontested layup. If Ibok looks that bad vs. Memphis, I'd say give Herzog a try. He is much more fluid than Iboc is, and actually has a few post moves.
I have an off-the-wall thought: is there ANY way that we can have Kalin Lucas suit up as a defensive back for the football team? With that incredible speed & acceleration, I can just imagine him swooping in to intercept passes. Could you ponder MSU having an All-American cornerback after all of these yrs having the position being the Achilles Heel of the team? OK, I'll stop fantasizing now.
DSR
Posted by: David | March 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM