Goofy conclusions

One night the MSU locker room is a morgue, the next night a comedy club. One night Tom Izzo has lost his players, the next night he has motivated them.

   See, losing gets ugly at this level. And it was "very ugly" Thursday night after the Maryland debacle, reports Marquise Gray. But I had to laugh at the speculation by ESPN's Doug Gottlieb, and some readers, about chemistry after the Spartans laid an egg against the Terps.
    ESPN's cameras closed in on Raymar Morgan rolling his eyes and saying "OK, coach" in response to Izzo's barking Thursday. This was seen as some kind of ominous sign.
    You know what probably bothered Izzo about that? The fact that Morgan didn't jump up, poke his finger in Izzo's chest and start sending profanity back at him. Two of his favorite players, Mateen Cleaves and Travis Walton, have told Izzo to stick various things in various places right in the middle of games before.
    Izzo talked about it later like they gave him a really nice Christmas gift.
    It's the heat of battle at this level, passion is encouraged, and losing gets ugly. I don't know how good this team will be this season, but chemistry certainly won't be its undoing. The chemistry is fine. The defense? We'll see.

Comments

[Stone]

Talk about Goofy, how bout those uniforms. Looked like both teams tonight had the shrink wrap tops and the mc hammer giant shorts. Goofy Nike.

[tanfan]

Um, we played Nobody State U. tonight, hard to draw conclusions from this. Wait till UNC rolls us by fitty.

[markv]

Amen on the defense. I'd like to see Izzo issue a challenge to the team to keep North Carolina under 75, win or lose. Who cares if we win. The team is going to post another 8-8 in the Big Ten if it doesn't assume a defensive mindset. See 2005-2006.

[spartandawgs]

So many people are always negitive on this site. I mean come on saying we played nobody U, they are a big 12 team that gave Gonzaga all they could handle the night before and we handled them rather easily without Suton and with Morgan only playing 7 first half minutes(fouls). Yea UNC will probably hand us a loss(not by 50) but they will pry hand almost every team they play this year a loss. This team has enough athletes and a good enough coach to beat anyone, problem is they aren't playing defense yet but they're a very young team, and the defense will improve, how much is the question. Remember 4 freshmen(including Thorton) and 3 sophmores are playing for this team. Not a recipe for early season success but those are the teams that usually peak late season. The big men were the worry coming in but when Suton is back and Roe and Green get games under their belt that will be no worry. I believe Suton can score down low and we miss him more than people realize on the defensive end. He controls a lot from the back line and reads the game really well, just look at his steal numbers for a unathletic big man. I think this season will come down to how well Allen and Summers play, mainly on defense they have to learn how to stop penetration. Go State!!!

[MSUFan]

Give a hand to Walton for having 2 straight great games. The kid is a winner. Glad I can route for him.

Let's keep working on turning the defensive intensity up. Stop the dribble penetration and keep in position. That's the key to winning.

[TheOldestIzzoneMember]

I hate all the scUM-like doomsdayers that blog here and then disappear when things go right. We have an amazing coach, a team full of talent and promise, and an opportunity to beat the number one team in the land. Sounds great to me.

GO GREEN!!

[Bingo]

Gary Williams has always had Izzo's number and is inside his head most of the nigh. Sure they didn't play well at all, shoot, pass, and defend. But some of that might have been preparation from a coaching stance in that the correct mindset was not achieved prior to the game.

A few players have yet to click but when that happens we should be a force to contend with instead of a doormat. We can beat N.C. but we have to play well at that level and tempo and not make stupid basketball mistakes and stupid basketball plays, and stupid basketball fouls. This Spartan team can play with anybody and should be able to go to a final four. They just have to start hitting on all cylinders and defending the paint.
GO GREEN!

[mapman]

What do Gary Williams and Bo Ryan have in common? The swing offense! Sparty hasn't a clue on how to defend it. Once Coach figures this out, gets the kids to understand it, then we can talk about championship b-ball.

Go Green!

[calchris]

Izzo called this possibly his toughest stretch yet. Well, that was before losing to unranked Maryland who got clobbered last night. Sorry but this is the losers bracket, so picking up a couple wins now isn't saying much.

What would be impressive is to see Morgan score 29 against Carolina without getting into foul trouble, to see Lucas light it up (12 points aint gonna cut it), and two of the bigs getting a double double.

What's more likely is a bit of deja vu on a national stage next week. Hansborough handing Sparty a big defeat a la the OSU and PSU thumping in football. We're not up to big boy ball yet.

[BuddyJ]

Personally, I don't think there is enough negativity on this site. What I am seeing is that Spartan fans are unwilling to settle for second best anymore. We expect excellence from our teams and we see clearly those shortcomings that make the difference between being in the winners bracket instead of the loser's bracket. One other thing, all this talk about players challenging Izzo or knocking him on his ass will make them better ballplayer is a lot of horsedung. I think that some of the newer refs are believing all that crap and are "seeing" fouls that aren't there. We certainly are not getting the respect we deserve with that kind of talk. I think it's about time the players kept their mouths shut, work on their defensive footwork, block out and play the game. It's time to throw out the football pads, sledge hammers and other motivational tools that mean absolutely nothing when it come to playing the game the way it's supposed to be played.

[Pops]

The issue isn't whether posts are positive or negative. Fans are trying to get the measure of this team. Measured against Maryland, they were not very good. Measured against OSU, they were better but the measuring stick (Ok.St) was not the same. OSU did give Gonzaga a run for their money and Maryland got whipped in their second game. So we are left a bit befuddled at this point. UNC is the best measuring stick out there. How we do against them will give us an excellent measure of our team. It's not enough for fans to see us ranked in the top ten. Fans want to see MSU perform and render their own opinions. So far, MSU is not a top squad and still shows no indication of being one at the end of the year. Just saying they're great merely because they are the team we root for, is not what I want to see on this blog. I like to see honest assessment and everyone's opinion, positive or negative. We are fans. We are not supposed to be coaches or players. We want our team to do well and we are disappointed when they perform poorly. When they are over-hyped, they are more likely to fail to measure up. So we want honest assessments of this teams abilities and likely performance.

[scott skiles]

Last nights games were simple. OSU was a step slow compared to the night before when they played Gonzaga. They burned a lot of energy in the Gonzaga game and didn't have too much left last night. Same goes for Maryland, they were wiped out and got crushed by Gonzaga. MSU played better on defense, but they had an easier task. Maryland had guy who could penetrate off the dribble, which is where the MSU defense breaks down quickly, OSU didn't have anyone like Vasquez, who could penetrate and make the defense pay. MSU also got rebounds against a smaller 4 guard lineup and could run their break, which they have had trouble doing this year. I wouldn't make too much of last nights win, but it was good to see the spartans be able to impose their style of play for the first time this year.

[spartanforever]

Oklahoma State was not Nobody State U. but they also aren't very good either. Maryland got clobbered by Gonzaga after kicking our butts so we realistically have a ways to go before we can compete against the good teams. I think Tom Izzo did a great job in finally motivating the team to play better.

Travis Walton is a person who should be admired for sticking with it and having faith in himself. He easily could have faded when his career didn't turn out the way he must have hoped it would. Instead he rallied and certainly deserves the success he his getting. I hope that Raymar Morgan can learn from Travis's example and finally live up to his potential too. We need him to play well against good opponents also.

We also need to begin to play good defense and to begin trying to dominate on the boards. The emphasis on running fits the talents of this group of Spartans but they can't lose sight of the importance of playing as a team. They can't win the Big 10 or the NCAA's without doing that. Fortunately we have a coaching staff that understands, and, is capable of teaching that. I'm rooting for the coaches to succeed in their efforts to develop these players. I think the coaches will succeed if the players actually have the character they were recruited for as well as the athletic talent we know they have. The bounce back demonstrates that there is hope that they do have what it takes. Go Spartans!

[glclimber]

Its hard to not settle for second best...Izzo set the bar pretty high. But this team hasnt shown anything. Summers and Allen looked great against d-3...we're d1 though. Everyone right about morgan..Remember peterson? bell? they had their biggest games on the biggest stages. I dont see why we should have to wait until roe is 90%...are we depending that much on frosh? Are guys dont seem to develop anymore. How much did davis, s brown or anyone else improve since the final4's. We are a 10-8 b10 team. Not being negative, but ive watched hoops too long to really beleive we are that scary. And we arent young...3 seniors with tons of minutes, another 3yr starter and 3 soph's with a ton of minutes last yr...we are experienced. Purdue is young and we'll see how we stack up. Funny how izzo isnt smiling anymore.

[vnflcards]

That was a much better performance. I like the bigger lineup of Gray and Roe in the front court and it should be even better when they have Suton, Roe and Morgan in the lineup.

I'm still a little disappointed in the perimeter defense. Summers is particularly bad in his rotations and is always late getting out to the shooters. Thornton is playing hard but he's a defensive liability as well.

I'd like to see Dahlman take some minutes from both of those guys once he's healthy because I think he's a better defender than either one of them.

[charlevoixspartan]

That was a lot better last night, and what better way to motivate Morgan, than to sit him to start. We defended, though not for forty minutes, rebounded better, but not good enough....but boy did we push the offense thru better. This takes time to develop, we cannot worry quite as much about November games because there are chemistry adjustments. Did not see that comment made by Gotleib Joe, although he loves making ignorant comments just to feed his unusually large ego....get a bunch of assists at the college level, play ball overseas and you know everything. We will be ready for UNC Wednesday, although that may not translate to victory. In March, we will be a top ten team, thats what counts!!

[motormouth]

This is a young 'team'. To me, Izzo is in the process of determining his playing group(s). Getting the right mix takes time and game experience. The players have to develop a feel for one another and begin to understand their role in the overall scheme.It would be much easier if he had less talent but he is trying to give each player a fair shot. Most teams that are succesful at this point in the season are upper class heavy and the players have been together for 2-4 years. Their game is much more cohesive and consistent. This team has great potential and Izzo will bring it out as the year progresses..

[motormouth]

This is a young 'team'. To me, Izzo is in the process of determining his playing group(s). Getting the right mix takes time and game experience. The players have to develop a feel for one another and begin to understand their role in the overall scheme.It would be much easier if he had less talent but he is trying to give each player a fair shot. Most teams that are succesful at this point in the season are upper class heavy and the players have been together for 2-4 years. Their game is much more cohesive and consistent. This team has great potential and Izzo will bring it out as the year progresses..

[tower]

For the record mapman, Maryland and Gary Williams does not run the swing offense, he runs the flex. Bo Ryan does run the swing. Both motion offenses but not the same.

[AtLSpartan]

Good comments all the way around. What calmed me down yesterday after the Maryland beatdown, was remembering that what really counts is March. No one in the country can deny Izzo's ability to make things happen in March. We are a good team that should finish 1 or 2 in the Big 10 and get him a favorable seed. With this team and a favorable seed in March I like our chances to make a final 4. It sure would be nice not to choke away a Big 10 title. We should have had at least two titles in the last 6 years. We are not as bad as our Maryland showing, the writers and coaches that voted MSU number 5 or 6 in the country, know what they are doing. See every one at the Florida Bowl game.

[Ben Green]

Pops, I agree. These blogs are intended for opinions, not simply fan ogling!

Ok State had 1 vote in AP's "others receiving votes". They are a decent team but not a top 10 or even top 40 at this point. But at least MSU bounced back from the Maryland debacle.

We will know more about this team as each game is played. Hopefully we'll see progress, especially on D. At least their freethrow shooting was respectable again.

To expect a win against North Carolina is totally wishful thinking at this point. I just hope they're not embarrassed, which by all indications they will be.

[AtLSpartan]

BTW that annoying Poll Monkey pop-up is back.

[mark]

What's the story on Hertzog?? Didn't play v Maryland and only got clean up time v Ok State. Has he fallen that far on the depth chart ???

[Spartan95]

I came home from work last night and upgraded my dish package to see if Coach Izzo could do what we've come to expect him to do, and gets paid handsomely to do; motivate, quick turnaround, get results from emotional, unpredictable 18-20 year olds. I disagree with those who don't want to "make too much of this win." I think it's a huge win because it showed improvement, it showed glimpses of what's coming, it showed that this team will respond to adversity and get back to work. Reminds me alot of what happened in football this year. Yes, the defense is suspect but all of these players, save Walton, were recruited for offensive skills. Learning defense the Spartan way takes time. We fans usually have much shorter time frames than the coaches. Personally, I'm glad MSU plays the schedule it plays, because win or lose, the games are a measuring stick of where we are compared to the best of the best and what needs to improve. Having opponents continually blow by Summers and Allen this time of year send a message to those players that what the coach has been saying to them is right: Learn to defend or you won't play and you won't win championships. It's that simple and Wednesday will be another measuring stick for the players to see what they're made of. If getting embarrassed by UNC will make this team better for the Big Ten and for march, then so be it.
GOD HELP US AND GO GREEN.

[NMichSpartan]

The sky is falling stuff from fans is just the hallmark of a good program. We analyze, dissect and ruminate because our expectation levels are sky high.

My opinion is that what happened at Maryland is just early season stuff combined with the top two scorers being out most or all of the game. We'll be alright.